Justin Benson

Welcome to After the Shoot, a podcast where we take a peek behind the lens to get inspired by the stories, challenges, and ideas of some of the most successful photographers in the business. I'm Justin Benson from Aftershoot, an AI culling and editing software that helps give photographers like you your time back so you can focus on what you do best, while our magical unicorns take care of the most boring and time consuming parts of your job. I'll be your host for this podcast, and I'm so excited to have you here as we talk with some of my favorite creators.

Episode Teasers

This is the Dark Ages on Facebook 2016. Everyone's bullying, they're so mean. So I would love to go into the groups to kind of troll, just like, talk in all caps when I post a photo, just for the kicks, you know,

Turn off notifications for Instagram so that you don't have da da da da da distracting you. This setting will eliminate the app from your home screen and from search.

Justin Benson

On today's episode of After the Shoot, we’re joined by the incredible Jessica Whitaker. We're gonna be discussing something that so many of us always kind of check out on, and that's how to set boundaries. So many of us are on social media doing the doom scroll or endlessly comparing ourselves to others. And while there can be some benefit to it, there's definitely a ton of drawbacks. And this episode is all about how to set those boundaries in your photography life and be sure to keep your mental health at its best. Enjoy the show.

Justin Benson

I'm so excited to introduce the amazing and the talented Jessica Whitaker.

Jessica Whitaker

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

Justin Benson

Thank you for joining us. So I always start these things with the most basic question. How did you get started in photography?

Jessica Whitaker

I got started in photography in middle school, kind of in my space days when I was too young to be on MySpace. But my mom let me and my friends and I would dress them up, and we go into my bathroom, my hall bathroom. So it's long and narrow, and I remember I had this turquoise fish shower curtain, but I would flip it behind, and then it'd be white, and that would be like, my seamless paper. And I had this Ikea floor layer that I would adjust and play with. Turn the lights off. Do we do, like, extreme makeup?

And I just continued to do it as a hobby up until 2017 is when I took my business full time. So during my high school and college years, I worked in e commerce for a clothing brand. And so I actually went to school for three and a half years for fashion design, and so the e commerce was kind of a cool blend to see more of the technical side. And I feel like that has benefited me a lot when it comes to my photography business with SEO knowing how to keyword things.

When I went full time in 2017, I actually moved to New York City. I was actually moving back because I went there for design school, and that's when I was able to launch into it. But I had already built a client base up for the past couple of years from design school to moving back. So it was a responsible way to go about it. But I know that probably nowadays you might not have to take it so slow with social media. Now I live full time in Seattle, but I travel back and forth to New York City for my photography clients. Though I do have clients, of course, at home. I love going to New York and doing, like, six photo shoots in a couple of days span. It's so much fun.

Justin Benson

That's amazing. Oh, that's so cool. So your background, I mean, you started in fashion. It sounds like that's really, like, the space you came from. I'm guessing FIT.

Jessica Whitaker

Yeah, I went to FIT just for a year there.

Justin Benson

Okay, very cool. So you started in fashion, you worked for an e commerce brand, and then you moved out west, and then you moved. Now you're back and forth.

Jessica Whitaker

Yes.

Justin Benson

So you have clients in New York City. That's got to be so cool, though. I mean, that's like, the coolest place to photograph.

Jessica Whitaker

I'm very blessed to have the opportunity to go back there.

Justin Benson

That's so lucky. And of course, like, Washington is a very beautiful state.

Jessica Whitaker

Yeah.

Justin Benson

So it's not like you're not like you don't have cool places on both sides of the country.

Jessica Whitaker

Yeah, totally.

Justin Benson

That's amazing. So one of the things that's really exciting and cool about what you've done is what you've been able to build through your photographies business. So your photography business, you've grown it, but then also you've kind of grown this other project out of it. Tell us a little bit more about build and bloom.

Jessica Whitaker

My photography community is called Build and Bloom, and I started it in 2016 when I was in between moving back from New York and then again, so I was in Seattle for, like, a year and a half, and I was really starting to consider, okay, I think I want to take photography full time. It's 2016. I went full time in 2017. So I joined all these Facebook groups, and that was the dark ages on Facebook. 2016, everyone's bullying they're so mean.

So I would love to go into the groups to kind of troll just, like, talk in all caps when I post a photo, just for the kicks, you know? And so I was like, okay, there's definitely a huge gap for beginner photographers, but also just for people who don't want to be so serious. Like, this isn't rocket science. We're not doing brain surgery. They just want to have fun. Maybe they want to start a business. So I started building bloom, and to this day, it's one of the largest, most engaged photography communities, both online.

But then in 2018, I did eight workshops for build and bloom. That was the year of the photo meetup, but I didn't feel like me doing a photo meetup was gonna be super productive when there was already a lot of that going on. I was like, how can I still be able to bring people together, but make it different and also make it beneficial? So I did eight free photography workshops, six in the United States, two over in Europe, and I would teach basic marketing skills. I brought in guest speakers, and I always was… So I used to work in youth ministry, and so it instilled in me a way of leadership, so making everyone feel welcome, how programs can be run, even the language that you use when you're talking to people.

Going back to the workshops, I always wanted to make sure that there's a point of contact in each city that we were going to into as the speaker so that we didn't leave. And then it's like, okay, now what? There's always someone that can be a touch point for the people who join. And that's a big thing. That. And I also have a photography YouTube channel. I've had that for nine years now, coming up on ten years. And with that, I teach very basic. I break down complicated topics about photography, the technical, but also the business end. And I make it very simple for anyone to understand, so it's as accessible to people as possible.

So, with the workshops, I loved making it free. That was really important to me. A lot of people were in my ear. They always kind of are, especially at the beginning when I'm like, no, this is a nonprofit. I want to do this for free. It's like, you need to charge. You need to charge, charge $50. But I was thinking, I'm coming from a place of growing up in poverty. I'm like, $50. Most of these people don't have that to spend on a workshop, so why not make it free? It's already so easy for me to set up. Why not make it free? That also eliminates the pressure.

For the first time doing these rounds, right after the workshops, I also started something for women. So it's a build and bloom women's networking group, and that was in twelve cities in the United States. We'd all meet on the same Saturday of the month, and there'd always be a topic that was relevant to life skills, so such as personal finance, and we would bring in experts on that, or even just how to do a job interview. The very first topic was how to navigate difficult conversations in the workplace. And it's just a really amazing way to bring people together with a common interest of photography, but really, but empower them with skills that were not taught in the american school system. And of course, this is also free.

So after Covid, you know, I struggled with depression. I was very depressed from 2020 up until like, a month ago. Very depressed, not myself. Didn't have the same ideas and same momentum that I did when I was living in New York. And so now I'm on a different medication. I feel like my life has, like, changed. I'm, like, in that space again. So now I'm mentally ready to give to the girls. So in February, I launched it again, but just in Seattle. But I hope to expand it back to New York City and wherever in the country people want it.

Justin Benson

Oh, that's amazing. So one of the things that I love so much about what you just said is that it's a nonprofit you're here to give back. And at Aftershoot, that's kind of like the mentality of our brand. My profile… We sold my profile, took all the money, and went and did charity things in Peru. And so, you know, to me, that that's such a valuable and an exciting thing to have to know that that's what you are all about and that's what you're creating for.

And so build and bloom is like a— it's a huge Facebook community, photographers of all walks of life. And it fills that void, right. Because there's so many of us are newer photographers that are just kind of, you know, getting off the ground, whether we haven't gone full time yet or we're, you know, just picking, picking up a camera for the first few times and there's space and room to grow. But just like you said, having that positive and welcoming space to do it versus the good old Facebook days is amazing. So that's awesome.

Now, I wanted to kind of dive into and change gears a little bit, because I'm really, really excited to hear about how you kind of work through the social media stuff. Social media is awesome, right? We work a lot on social media, but that also means that we're kind of constantly connected and, like, how do you set boundaries?

Jessica Whitaker

Yes. So this is one of my favorite topics to teach on because a lot of people who are in my community or come to me or friends who even come to me, the main source of the comparison is usually scrolling on Instagram. So I have a handful of ways that people can kind of unplug, but still be able to run their business, have it be successful, but eliminate as much as we can these obstacles for comparison. So I have them kind of in tiers from beginning to most extreme, which is what I'm on. So let's start with the beginning.

And of course, though I have to make a disclaimer that these are going to depend on your circumstance. So if you're working full time, the only time that I had, I was working full time, part time, and going to school. So the only time that I had to post and interact, even answer my emails, was on my bathroom break or lunch break. So please know that I am totally uncomfortable understanding of all those, but I just want to share.

So the first thing to do is super simple, of course, turn off notifications for Instagram so that you don't have da da da da da da distracting you.

Then the second thing to do is actually to remove the apps that you can easily access on a desktop computer, remove them from your phone. So, for example, Pinterest or Twitter, at least back in the day, those are things that you are most likely opening up when you're in line at the coffee shop. You've gone through Instagram, you've done your rotation through TikTok. Okay, I guess I'll open Pinterest, delete those from your phone because most likely, when you are using them for your business, it's on desktop computer. It's on the computer.

The third one. Now, we're getting a little bit into the extreme territory, but I promise this might change the game for so many of you. What you want to do in order, this is all about eliminating the impulse to go onto Instagram, but still having it on your phone. So on the iPhone, I'm sure it's similar. If you use an Android, you're going to open up your settings and then you're going to pop on over to the Siri tab. You're going to see all of your apps that you have on your phone under a tab called home screen and search. Toggle off of Instagram and any apps that you find yourself clicking into this setting will eliminate the app from your home screen and from search.

So what I mean by search is on an iPhone, you scroll on over after your homepage. There's usually a page that has photos, it has a couple apps. It's like all your widgets and it's going to show at the top, most likely your recently opened app. Or even when you tug down to search something, let's say, okay, I need to know this recipe. Let me tell, oh, Instagram's right there. Let me click into it. It will remove it. But the way to get back into Instagram, when you are ready to post, you're going to interact. You need to answer your direct messages, not doom scrolling, not comparing yourself against anyone.

You're going to go into the app store, go to my apps and open Instagram that way so you can see that it eliminates you impulse opening Instagram and this is the best thing that I have done for my mental health. So when I open Instagram, I am there to operate my business and not use it for personal use.

The most extreme one, number four, and this is something I've recently implemented, is having a separate work phone. I have an old version of an iPhone that I have my Instagram, all my apps on and this is what I use. This phone lives at my desk or in this instance here at the Aftershoot Retreat. It actually lives in my hotel room because I want to be present. And I also don't want to compare myself because that's the biggest thing. It's imposter syndrome. It's comparison. And when you open Instagram, even if it's for fun, you think, oh, I'm just personal use. Subconsciously you're still viewing other photographers work or other people's lifestyle.

Maybe you see that they're on this amazing wedding out in Greenland that they're doing an elopement for. Oh, I wish I could do that. The moment I was able to compartmentalize Instagram and my personal life, it changed the game for me. I don't struggle so much with comparison because of this one change. So if you have an old iPhone laying around, it's a great way.

And I was kind of like, oh, a new phone. I've never set up a phone number. It's always been my number, right? And I looked into it, it was $10 to add the line because you do need a separate number and maybe that's a great way for you to be able to then not impulse respond to clients when they text you at 10:00 p.m. you're able to have it separate. So that is what I do for social media boundaries. I really encourage you to start simple with the first two steps, which was removing notifications and deleting those apps like Pinterest, Twitter that you can easily access on your computer and remove them so you don't impulse open them.

Justin Benson

That's amazing. So that's fantastic. I mean, essentially, when we talk about, like, comparison and imposter syndrome, I mean, we were up on the hillside today, and I was literally saying, like, I am teaching, right? So I think we all kind of suffer from it, and it's all varying degrees, right? And knowing that when you're scrolling through on whatever platform it is and you're watching other people's work and you're seeing other people, it's very easy to be like, oh, I am not as good.

Jessica Whitaker

Or other people's gear. I compare myself. I have a mark four camera, so that's from 2016, maybe. And I'm seeing all these mirrorless. But I'm not in a place right now to be able to put that money into a mirrorless camera. I want to put it into other things. Sometimes I want to put it into a handbag instead, because my mark four is perfect for where I'm at right now. And maybe I'll be blessed to be able to get it in a year from now. But that's something that a lot of photographers, especially starting out, okay, I need to have the latest gear in order to be successful. That's what marketing is always going to tell us. But the best camera is the one in your hand. And, of course, work your way up to it, but make a wise financial decision about how you're going to go about it.

Justin Benson

Yeah, I agree. I mean, that's definitely. That's a huge part of how we. How I always operated my business. I think my first few weddings, I had, like, the entry level Nikon camera and a couple of the cheap prime lenses. And then as I started to book a little bit more, I went and got some used stuff that wasn't still, like, great, but it was better. And I kind of worked my way. And then all of a sudden, I was doing 30 weddings and I was like, okay, I'm gonna put all of the things in and I'm gonna get the things I always wanted and needed. Because now it’s… financially, it makes sense to me. I'm shooting enough. I have enough income that those are just regular expenses that I need to take.

But the camera, just like you said, the camera doesn't make the photographer. The photographer makes the photographer. And so that's awesome to hear that you still have the mark four because I officially just, like, pushed out of the DSLR. It was two years ago now, but I felt like I was a late bloomer because I was shooting 50 weddings, 60 weddings a year on dslrs, and I was like, I'm never going to mirrorless. These are my workhorses. And I caved eventually, and I hated it at first. I love it, but that's awesome. So you kind of dove in a little bit and you said a word that kind of piqued my interest, which was the marketing and branding of camera companies, right?

Jessica Whitaker

Yes.

Justin Benson

And that kind of leads me into the next space that I wanted to kind of talk to you about is the branding. Right. You have some experience with branding and how to kind of create a brand. And I'm assuming that kind of came from the fashion world or did that come from the photography side of.

Jessica Whitaker

I think it comes from design. Because when I went to trade school for two and a half years for fashion design and business, and we always would have these projects that were all about creating a collection where everything needs to be cohesive, from the fonts to the colors, the look. And I feel like that has come to fruition in my photography business, teaching other photographers, and also when I did consulting and social media management for a variety of different types of businesses, that was always one of the first things that we would have to overhaul.

So, for example, at a dentist office or a cosmetic doctor, maybe even a coffee stand, that's kind of the first thing that I realized, okay, we need to do a little bit of tweaking. So that's where my experience for branding has come from.

Justin Benson

Oh, that's so cool. So you're like an entrepreneur in all aspects, right? So you've got the Facebook group, you have the empowering women group, you have all of these different things, the photography business. And so I'm sure that all kind of benefits from the branding. Do you do sort of branding for income and that sort of stuff as well? Like, do you advise photographers on how to brand?

Jessica Whitaker

Yes. That's awesome. Yes, I have a branding course. And it's not just about the logo, the color, the fonts, the aesthetics that we think of. It's all about how you can put on a Persona. This actually, I learned in one of the classes. And I love that he coined this. It's a Persona, it's not an alter ego. When he would use that to combat comparison when he is doing a photo photography photoshoot.

But when it comes to the branding, you need to step into your ideal version of your photography brand, not your ideal version of yourself. So that everything is cohesive, so that clients, when they see your work, they see your website, there's a thread that ties it all together and that's your branding.

Going back to what I teach is that it's all about how you dress and the color palette. I've stuck to my color palette since I started build and bloom in 2016. And of course, when I hired someone to do my website, they suggested to add two more complementary colors. I was like, perfect. Now it's a well rounded palette because before it was all pink and yellow. That's my favorite color. So it's also how. It's also the language that you use to address your clients, even down to the nitty gritty.

When it comes to YouTube, for example, I always use words like we or you versus my or I. That's a way to also make people feel included and that they're going to get value. So, for example, when I tell this is all branding too. It doesn't sound like it, but these are the things that sometimes we miss. So when I want someone to subscribe, I don't say subscribe to my channel. It would help me a lot. Instead, I say be sure to subscribe. So you receive the. Be sure to subscribe. So you're the first to know when new free photography videos for your business come out. Those are really important elements to branding.

Justin Benson

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, how you speak to your clients, how you interact with your clients before you even get to them. Right. They're coming to you and they're reading your website. That's you. That has to be the version of you that is bubbly and happy and doing the things that your clients would expect. And it's from the writing to the coloring to the. To all the pieces, which I think is incredible. I actually just.

There's someone here at the retreat and they just showed me their website and they have, like, I love the website. And he's like a bit of like an out there kind of funny guy, and his website has like, a mean girl gif, and like, it's just like, I'm not. I'm the cool mom and, you know, just really speaking to his ideal client, which are people who, like, he likes to say he likes to yell, swears at them. Right. That's like kind of how he tells them to interact and gets them to laugh. And his clients love it, so. Exactly. That finding your brand, it doesn't have to be some super, pretty, elegant website that you love. It's what's the thing that speaks to the client that's going to hire you, which I think is incredible.

Jessica Whitaker

Totally. And when it comes to branding, I feel like oftentimes, photography in general, it's so easy for us to follow trends or. Okay, I want to start a business. Let me look at what everyone else is doing. The true way of going about trends, or the way to avoid trends and be timeless is to do the opposite of what everyone else is doing and stay true to what you like, because you want the branding, color palette, the fonts. You want this to last you forever.

For example, 2016 until 2024. That's eight years. That's eight years. Yeah. Okay. I looked inside myself rather than to the right and the left. I have the social media boundaries, right? And I was able to create something that's timeless to me. Which means pink hot, which means hot pink, bright yellow, chartreuse green. This also separates me from everybody else. And it's not to compare myself against others, but. But it's so that I'm able to stay focused on myself and not compare my branding to someone else's. So even if you aren't into the Barbie kind of look like I am, you can still look within and say, what really am I attracted to?

So, for example, so with that example of that guy with the mean girl's gift and the swearing, that's true to him. So you need to identify what's true to yourself because that will sustain any trend.

Justin Benson

Amazing. That's so awesome. This conversation was absolutely incredible. I feel like I got an amazing little glimpse into all of the different aspects. And so where can people find you? You mentioned you have a YouTube channel, you have all these different outlets, so you have the Facebook community. Where should people go hunt you down? What's the like? Is there one location that I can maybe access all the different places or…

Jessica Whitaker

So I recommend everybody. This is gonna be the most beneficial is if you check out the Build and Bloom Facebook group. Of course you can find me on Instagram and YouTube. My first and last name, Jessica Whitaker. But where I recommend for you to begin is the build and bloom community. It's kind, encouraging, inclusive. It's the best place to ask questions about your specific photography business. So whether you need help responding to a difficult client situation or you want an extra set of eyes on your website you're about to publish. Build and Bloom is my best free resource for you. It's a safe space that's judgment free for all levels of photography.

Justin Benson

Wow, that's amazing. I can't wait. We're all gonna come find you at the building Bloom Facebook group. Thank you so much for taking the time on this amazing vacation retreat to sit with me, and we're so excited to see you soon.

Jessica Whitaker

Thank you.

Justin Benson

Thank you all so much for watching. Remember, go check out Jessica Whitaker and the build and Bloom Facebook community.

Justin Benson

Thanks for tuning in to After the Shoot. Got any burning questions for today's guest? Or just want to keep the conversation going? Drop us a comment if you're on YouTube or join the aftershoot community to share your thoughts. You can find the link in the description. Make sure you subscribe to get notified as soon as we drop the next episode. And trust me, you don't want to miss it. And if you like this episode, I'd love it if you gave us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're watching this podcast. See you next time.